Religious Truths Debatable

By Butch66
Published/Last Modified on Friday, July 18, 2008 12:01 PM CDT

Subject: About the claims by some Christians that "the Bible is the word of God," so cherry-picking Bible scriptures gives them the right to morally condemn and oppress gays, "in the name of God."

Some Christians should study the whole history of Christianity, especially Early Christianity that eventually "created" the Bible by cherry-picking Gospels from the multitude of Gospels available at that time. The Bible was created by men, and not just handed down by God in one single completed work, like The Ten Commandments allegedly handed down to Moses. However, even The Ten Commandants are a redacted version of ancient Egyptian writings, so it's debatable whether God wrote the Ten Commandments, or if Moses wrote them himself. It's more likely Moses wrote them himself to control his immoral followers.

Back to the "creation" of the Bible, dozens of Gospels were dismissed or ordered destroyed because they didn't conform to the "story" which was being pieced together by the Early Christian hierarchy at the time. This fact alone should give pause to anyone who understands what deceit man is capable of committing on his fellow man in order to gain power. Fortunately, many of these dismissed Gospels were secretly hidden away by smaller Christian sects and discovered many centuries later. The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in 1947 are the most famous of these hidden Gospels and they are still being deciphered today.

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These smaller Christian sects were systematically silenced over time by the more powerful Christian sect at the time. And yes, murder was sometimes used to accomplish this, "in the name of God." The crime of blasphemy forced many into silence as the Early Christian Church targeted anyone who contradicted their version of sacred truth which was allegedly the word of God. How could these men tell which Gospels were the word of God and which were not? For example, the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Nicodemus are both very interesting. But the Early Christian hierarchy chose to dismiss these particular Gospels because they didn't conform to the "story" they were trying to piece together.

The Bible contains mostly unsubstantiated claims, does it not? Claiming the Bible is the word of God is also unsubstantiated. An educated person could look at the entire historical record that leads to the final version of the Bible and prove it was corrupted by many men throughout history. Therefore, it is now humanly impossible to separate fact from fiction in the Bible. Christians should take a closer look at what they "think" they believe, what the Catholic Church says is "true," and what "truths" were deliberately left out of the Bible long ago by men.

Of course, every religion created by man has always boiled down to a matter of "faith." You can believe the Bible is the word of God based on faith, but faith is nothing more than accepting as religious truth something you are lacking hard facts to prove. Or more likely, something you were repeatedly told as a child and accepted as religious truth. However, the religious truth you personally believe is usually determined by birthplace. Is God trying to teach us all something about religion with this simple fact, or is every religion on Earth just a product of man's inability to cope with a Universe which couldn't care less if mankind ever existed at all?

Butch66

Copyright © 2009 The Daily Iberian

Comments

    Butch wrote on Aug 24, 2008 1:38 PM:

    " The closed-minds of self-appointed modern-day-apostles can't even understand Jesus' two new-commandments-of-love {laid over the old-Laws-of-Moses}, or that Jesus created a new-covenant-of-love which moved forward from the old-covenant of an angry-God. Modern-day-apostles refuse to accept Jesus' new-covenant because they are only interested in making money by using the old-covenant-word-of-tithing and spreading old-covenant-hate against groups of people. Self-appointed modern-day-apostles understand nothing of Jesus' new-covenant-message. "For such are false apostles, being transfigured into apostles of Christ." Jesus doesn't want your money or hate, Jesus only wants you and your love! Give-to-the-needy, not to self-appointed modern-day-apostles.
    Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Aug 24, 2008 1:31 PM:

    " To self-appointed modern-day-apostles: "Are ye also yet without understanding?" Of-course-you-don't-understand. Jesus warned that you can't understand the parables-of-the-Bible {the word}. The Bible is a collection of parables, creating one universal-parable. The ancient prophets who wrote the word could not understand. The Apostles who walked with Jesus for three years could not understand. Even after Jesus explained the parables{the word} to the Apostles with more parables, they still could not understand. The Bible says that only after the resurrected-Christ came to the Apostles and "opened-their-minds" could they {and-only-them} then understand the universal-word. Butch66 "

    What wrote on Aug 22, 2008 4:46 PM:

    " To "full gospel": You said,"your church is you". That'a a bunch of New Age BS, where "I'm a god, you're a god, the tree is god, the rocks are gods......"
    You are running around in a bunch of ignorant circles.
    Another thing: The Samaritans did worship on the mountain and the Jews worshiped in Jerusalem. Jesus did say, "The time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem." What Jesus meant was that we would worship at the Holy Sacrifice of the MASS!! "

    wayne wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:00 PM:

    " Huummm.....Butch66, you may have a point about the corruption of the "WORD", its been ~5 millinea, a lot time to do it for variuos reason or purpose. Look at the constitution, just barely 200 years old, its being reinterperted (corrupted)before our very eyes more or less for the same reasons. Laws made by people or GOD will eventually be corrupted and used to serve the powerful and the elite. That is the nature of the weak, which is always the majority......AMEN "

    Just a question wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:41 PM:

    " Why is it when a devil worshipper or satanist steals items from a church for their devil worshipping ceremonies it is never from a Protestant church?
    Is it because there are not any items of a religious significance in Protestant churchs?
    Or is it because satanists do not view Protestant churches as "real churchs"? "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:28 AM:

    " There is a beauty in that, that expresses enthusiasm.

    What I’m trying to explain is that neither the Catholic church, the full gospel church (Assembly of God, Faith Cathedral, Inner Faith…), Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist,etc… is “THE” church. The most important temple is “YOU” the person, not the building. Where you choose to worship is not as important as putting God first in your life. Applying Gods Word everyday. However it is important that the church you attend is feeding you Gods un-adulterated word. Just going to church is not enough, we must live it 24-7. "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:21 AM:

    " Ya'll are so bent on defending the Catholic church, something I'm not coming against, that you're missing the whole point. And you very well could be right about the universal church thing, it’s not been a point of study for me(yet). My point does not condemn or even come against your beloved church, I would never do that. Catholics are beautiful people, and I have a lot of respect for them as I've said earlier. One particular thing that I admire about the Catholics are their dedication, an awesome thing to say the very least...cont... "

    Steve B. wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:30 AM:

    " Full Gospel, many things aren't explicitly named in the Bible that Christians believe. The Trinity, for example. The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, but the meaning is certainly there. Even the word "Bible" is not in the Bible. Does that mean it never existed? No!

    I find it rather sophomoric to claim that the Church founded by Jesus Christ can't be the Catholic Church because the word "Catholic" isn't in the Bible. History clearly shows it was the ONLY Christian Church for the first 1000+ years! "

    Steve B. wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:28 AM:

    " Full Gospel, the Catholic Church is mentioned all over the New Testament. It's just not called "Catholic." The name "Catholic" (means "Universal") started out as an adjective, and like many things, it became a noun. It's like when a baby is born, sometimes it doesn't get named for a couple of days. Does it make the baby a different person when it gets its label(name)? No! St. Ignatius of Antioch, writing around 110 A.D. refers to Jesus' Church as "Catholic," in a manner in which he expected everyone to know what he meant. "

    To Full Gospel wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:14 AM:

    " The "King's Religion" was a protestant one, the Church of England which is known in America today as Episcopal.
    The King of England was absolutley NOT Catholic as you state in your previous rant. The Puritans were dissenting Protestants who had left the Church of England and came to America. Schism of a schism of a schism etc... "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 21, 2008 5:45 PM:

    " If you’re a born again Spirit filled Christian then where ever you go, your church is with you, your church is you and who you are as a child of the Most High God. The temple dwells within you. If you think of the church as a building or a specific denomination, then you’re missing it. The Bride of Christ like I said earlier. Not one place in the Bible does it say that the catholic church is ‘the way’ ‘the truth’ ‘the life’, NO, Jesus said that about himself and he “lives” in ‘our’ heart. "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 21, 2008 5:44 PM:

    " …which you seem to have a very strong opinion and so do I. But opinion is not what matters. I don't go by interpretation, I go by straight WORD. The Catholic church is not mentioned in the Bible at all. But think on this, in John 4 the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman. vs.20 She says we worship on the Mountain but the Jews claim that the place to worship is in Jerusalem.(Samaritans not allowed)…Jesus replied, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. "

    Butch wrote on Aug 21, 2008 12:57 PM:

    " Again: "But vain were they {religiously superior players} made in their reasonings." "It is no great thing, then, if his servants (Satan's vain servants) also are being transfigured as dispensers of Christian righteousness {religiously superior Christian players}."

    The higher the steeple built upon a sandy foundation of religious superiority held together with vanity, the easier it is to topple with open-minded exploration for truth.

    Butch66 "

    Steve B. wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:36 AM:

    " Full Gospel, you cannot have the fullness of Christ's revealed truth without the Catholic Church. 1 Tim 3:15 says, "if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." Historically, the ONLY Church to which this passage can be referring is the Catholic Church. ALL Protestant Churches began afte 1517 A.D. The Catholic Church preceeded the New Testament, and the Bible under one cover. Protestantism is always splintering over personal interpretations, which is erroneous. "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:00 AM:

    " Typo, comment was to: Observer, and as I explained that unless you are Spiritually awakened: Born again, spirit filled, these things I say will seem like ramblings, mishmash...see through the glass darkly... So 'maybe' you wouldn't understand either Observer. "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 20, 2008 10:46 PM:

    " “We don’t yet see things clearly…”(The Message) Paul is telling us that we only know in part of the great truths. Until we are Spiritually awakened we walk around as though we’re wearing dark sunglasses all the time. We can’t see it so we can’t understand it. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.-(i.e.understanding)Sorry Steve B, I don't think you'll understand. "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 20, 2008 10:40 PM:

    " To: To Observer, 1Tim3:15 talks about Gods house, nowhere does it say Catholic but catholic is included. Matt. 18:20 says that "...where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." Which means if I worship at a full gospel church with at least one other worshiper, God will be there, or any other place of worship. There is no contradiction, 1 Cor. 13:12 “Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face…”(NIV) “For now we see through a glass darkly…”(KJ) cont… "

    Kim wrote on Aug 20, 2008 4:24 PM:

    " Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
    Albert Einstein
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955) "

    To Observer... wrote on Aug 20, 2008 10:38 AM:

    " Observer, the Bible is not self-explanatory. We have over 30,000 Protestant denominations because everyone wants to interpret Scriptures for themselves (against 2 Peter 1:20). Lutherans and Anglicans believe in infant baptism. Baptists and some others do not. Yet, they all read the same Scriptures, claiming to be "led by the Holy Spirit" in their interpretations. Yet they cannot all be correct, since that doctrine in each group is contradictory. Protestantism has no final authority like Catholics. 1 Tim 3:15 refers to Christ's Church (Catholic Church) as the "pillar and foundation of truth. "

    Observer wrote on Aug 20, 2008 9:09 AM:

    " To "Full Gospel": I've never read such a "mismash" of rantings. Either you believe in the Bible or not! Read Acts of the Apostles. It's in the Bible. Obviously you're full of weird ideas, out of context, derived from some so-called preacher who got a mail-order certificate (if any at all). and decided to go into the church business.
    It is impossible to reason with someone who doesn't understand (or even read) the Book that he preposes to believe in "from cover to cover". "

    Kim wrote on Aug 19, 2008 8:09 PM:

    " I disagree with To Full Gospel wrote on Aug 19, 2008 6:07 AM: concerning his remark that,"The habitually repeated fallacy about our country being founded upon the principle of freedom of religion is one of the original urban legends."
    http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
    I never heard about the New Jersey law.Do you have any links on this subject? "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 19, 2008 7:16 PM:

    " As for the urban legend comment, what you’re saying is a product of people re-writing history. People came here because they didn’t want a king telling them that they could only be “his religion” which when he fell in love with pagan celebrations, emblems and ways decided to make it part of “his religion” which was catholic. There was a divide, conformists, separatists, and puritans because of this. The church under the king was all controlling. If someone tried to leave without permission, the consequence was jail or a death sentence...And-it-goes-much-deeper "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 19, 2008 7:14 PM:

    " God established the church to be a dramatic demonstration of God’s marvelous wisdom and perfect plan of reconciliation, coming to expression in the uniting of two hostile, diverse groups into one body (Jews and Protestants) The church is the body of Christ, the bride of Christ, the temple of God. Christ died for the church to make her pure. The apostles and prophets form the foundation of the church, and Christ is the chief cornerstone. ..The leaders of the church must build up the church into unity, maturity and love…All of us must candidly ask ourselves:-Do-we-express-the-unity-that-God-expects-of-the-church? "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 19, 2008 7:13 PM:

    " As Catholic’s apparently you’re taught that God’s church is the Catholic church, the building and organization. I didn’t say “you have your religion and I have mine” I’m not religious, I’m a Christian. There’s a difference, James 1:22-27. The Church, Eph. 3:10, The Body, Eph. 4:4 The catholic church is not ‘the church’ your body is, the temple in which Christ dwells, therefore denomination is choice. There is no perfect church because there are no perfect people, not even the Pope. "

    Steve B. wrote on Aug 19, 2008 12:57 PM:

    " Hey, Full Gospel, you speak about arms and legs and bodies and heads, etc., as the Body of Christ. But in your model, the different members do what they want. In a real body, everything is coordinated by the head. Or does your arms and legs operate independently of your brain? I would think not! Jesus founded one Church, not 30,000+, with one set of beliefs, not 30,000. The truth cannot contradict itself. So, contradicting doctrines means somebody is in error. Protestantism, which appeared 1500 years after Christ, is in error. "

    To Full Gospel wrote on Aug 19, 2008 6:08 AM:

    " Our nation was formed primarily by ex-Englishmen and women who were taught to hate Catholics (remember King Henry VII and his many wives) and kill them and their clergy legally via the British “Penal Laws”. Much of that taught hatred against Catholicism still carries over today. Growing up Catholic here in Acadiana, I cannot remember any Priest ever saying anything derogatory about Protestants. Actually we were taught to respect other religion’s differences. My wife on the other hand grew up Protestant. She tells of being taught about the evils of Catholicism in Church, Bible Camps, revivals, etc… "

    To Full Gospel wrote on Aug 19, 2008 6:07 AM:

    " The habitually repeated fallacy about our country being founded upon the principle of freedom of religion is one of the original urban legends. Most of the original thirteen colonies allowed you to be whatever religion you want to be, as long as you were a Protestant. The one exception was Maryland, Mary – Land (get it?). As a matter of fact it was illegal under state law in New Jersey to be Catholic right up until the mid-1800's. The massive influx of European Catholics dictated that be changed. cont. "

    Observer wrote on Aug 18, 2008 10:05 PM:

    " Of course you have free will and can belong to any denomination you prefer, especially as an American. But unless it is the Catholic Church, you are not in the Church that Jesus established. Every other “Christian” denomination exists as a result of disobedience and heresy. They protested (Protestants) against the Catholic Church and its doctrine. Henry VIII wanted a divorce, which the Pope could not grant, so he started his own church. Made himself "pope". Others wanted to use artificial contraception or permit abortion,so they formed their churches. Now homosexuals want "gay marriage", and you guessed it. More denominations!!!! "

    Observer wrote on Aug 18, 2008 9:35 PM:

    " Either Jesus established His Church, or He didn’t. Either Jesus gave St. Peter and the Apostles the authority to continue His Church, or He didn’t. Either Jesus said, “Whatever you bind on Earth, is bound in Heaven; and whatever you loose on Earth is loosed in Heaven”, or He didn’t. Either Jesus said, “Whose sins you forgive they are forgiven”, or He didn’t. Either Jesus intended for them and their successors to decide how His Church was going to be conducted throughout history, or He didn’t. Either Jesus meant what He said, or He was a LIER. "

    Observer wrote on Aug 18, 2008 9:18 PM:

    " To “Full Gospel”: I agree with what you said about, “…you follow after Christ every day of your life or you don't. Either you live by the Word of God or you don't……”. That’s why I don’t understand how you can say, “You have your religion and I have mine…..You believe as you do and I believe as I do”. Isn’t there only ONE truth? Truth is Truth. Everything else is RELATIVISM: Your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth. (conrinued) "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 18, 2008 4:05 PM:

    " God calls all that are His, His Bride weather you‘re under the title of a denomination or not. If it brings you peace to be under the Catholic title, as long as God is first, that’s great. If I choose a way that’s better for me and my family, as long as God is first, great...Putting God first is what really matters,...not the title of your church...I choose to worship one way and you another...That's why our people came to this country in the first place,...so we could be free to worship as we want. "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 18, 2008 3:56 PM:

    " You say that all these churches teach their own interpretation of the Bible. I say each church has their own calling, their own work to fulfill. Just the same as the arms needs the legs and they both need the body and the head, they each have their own unique job. Together it makes up the body of Christ. When one part of the body is hurting, they all hurt. When part of the body is not there, it’s greatly missed by the rest... cont... "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 18, 2008 3:55 PM:

    " The Full Gospel church studies the Bible from cover to cover not taking anything out or adding anything. I mean the Bible that was written by men inspired by God. The King James is one of many versions and is one I own, I also own The New International Version (my favorite), New King James, New American Standard, Amplified, Interlinear Greek and English Bible and Bibles printed in Chinese, one from Indonesia (their language), Greek(ALKITAB), Hebrew(in their alphabet) History of Christians from A.D. 30 TO 1100... cont... "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 18, 2008 3:54 PM:

    " I can't defend or accuse this person on the AOC because I've never seen it. I have no clue about this so called Full Gospel person and what she's doing with that rug. For all I know it may be a rug that depicts a story in the Bible. But you're proud Catholics and that's great, I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church even though there are things that I don't agree with. There are no two people on this earth that will agree on absolutely everything... "

    Full Gospel wrote on Aug 18, 2008 3:09 PM:

    " Not so, Christian means "Christ like", there is no generic or non-generic about it. Either you follow after Christ every day of your life or you don't. Either you live by the Word of God or you don't. Either you're a person after God's own heart or you're not. You either love the One (Christ) and hate the other (Satan) or not. You can not serve two Gods, there is God the Father, Maker of heaven and earth, and there is god of the underground, the great deceiver…Have you been deceived?…Only one way to know... "

    To full Gospel... wrote on Aug 18, 2008 10:12 AM:

    " Evidently your Catholic friends were trying to say what type Christians they were, or were trying to indicate they weren't "generic" Christian. Catholics are the original Christians by over a thousand years. Saying one is a Christian is like saying one is a mammal. While true, it's more descriptive to say that one is a human being. "

    Franky wrote on Aug 18, 2008 8:51 AM:

    " They have a full gospel "church" that has a show on Acadiana Open Channel - AOC. The female preacher on the show worships a big rug! She tries to explain her version of Christianity by pointing out images on the rug.
    She also hates Catholics and is totally absurd. "

    Observer wrote on Aug 17, 2008 10:21 PM:

    " To “Full Gospel cover to cover”: Where do you get the “full gospel”? From the Bible? Do you mean the Holy Bible that was assembled and approved by the Catholic Church? How do you know what it means? One “full gospel” preacher says it means one thing. The “full gospel” preacher down the street has another interpretation. And another “full gospel” preacher, across town, has still another opinion. That’s all they are, personal opinions. I thank God I am a Catholic, who belongs to the original Christian Church, founded by Jesus and given to St. Peter and his successors. "

    To Rachael wrote on Aug 17, 2008 7:05 PM:

    " Or Full Gospel or For Shame or Rachael or one of the othe 30 names you have been writing under.
    I'm sure the cultist preacher believed just like you, that they are the only true Christians.
    There have been thousands of Christian religions formed from division, hatred, and bigotry. But only one religion was formed by Christ himself.
    May you find some degree of peace in your life Racheal, and rid yourself of your hatred... "

    Full Gospel cover to cover wrote on Aug 17, 2008 1:30 PM:

    " I've got a lot of catholic friends and family but I've never been catholic, nor will I ever. I don't believe in some of the ways of catholic rituals. I do believe that Catholics love God...I’ve seen a lot of good changes in the Catholic church. Like Rachel, I worship in a Full Gospel Church...We don’t pick and choose what part of the Bible to follow or not to follow...I’ve asked many some-ones if they were Christian...they said 'no...I’m Catholic'…so tell me what that means.

    And the heartbreaking story is highly likely a web...hoax. "

    For shame... wrote on Aug 17, 2008 1:25 PM:

    " You people calling Rachel a cultist are absurd. Where do ya'll get off on trashing someone like that. “Touch not my anointed”...1Cor.16:22...Ps.105:15 She's a child of the'Most High God'and I can see that the anointing has you scrambling hard calling her a cultist...Just because she chooses the full gospel church to worship rather than the catholic you start a witch hunt?...I believe ya’ll should visit a full gospel church and experience true worship...There are a few here in town,...it’s not sacrilegious to visit...They won’t try to proselyte you,...they‘ll just welcome.. "

    To Rachael wrote on Aug 16, 2008 8:56 PM:

    " Rachael, you need to read this article before you go to your next cult meeting:
    http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=8851942

    It's a heartbreaking story of a mother that was instructed by her preacher to kill her 1 year-old son if he would not say Amen after meals. She did as she was instructed and killed her son. The preacher assured her it would be alright because the child would be resurrected , with better manners.
    Truly disgusting... "

    Catholics believe wrote on Aug 16, 2008 10:59 AM:

    " The Virgin Mary is not dead. She appeared as The Lady of Lourdes and The Lady of Fatima. The Virgin Mary is in Heaven. "

    Mik Mak Girl wrote on Aug 16, 2008 8:38 AM:

    " I,sincerely, believe in the "message" of Jesus to love one another. However, God gave us the intelligence to recognize that words written about 2000 years ago reflected the opinions of the period. I don't know these people and can't vouch for their integrity. Just like Aeosop,s fables are fictional stories meant to teach a lesson, so may the stories in the bible. "

    Loves Jesus wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:06 PM:

    " Tithing is not scriptural under the new covenant of Jesus Christ. The following link proves tithing is obsolete using Biblical scripture. http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html "

    Very Sad wrote on Aug 15, 2008 9:57 AM:

    " Anti-Catholicism: the last socially acceptable prejudice in America, "

    Kim wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:44 PM:

    " Very well Rachel we will agree to disagree about the Virgin Mary.
    I understand your need for biblical reference.I see things a bit different."The Hail Mary Prayer"is a prayer of meditation and biblical text.
    "Hail Mary Full of Grace the Lord is with thee"(Luke 1:28)
    "Blessed are thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb"(Luke 1:42)And as you well know our prayers start with In the name of the Father the Son &the Holy Spirit and end in the same manner. Rachel, May you go in peace to love and serve the Lord.Thanks be to God. "

    Steve B. wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:34 PM:

    " A 10,000 ft. historical view of Christianity should help clear up some confusion. Jesus Christ, Son of God, created a Church around 33 A.D. This Church soon came to be called the "Catholic" (Universal) Church. The name stuck. Until 1054 A.D., there was ONE Christian Church, the Catholic Church. Then, the Orthodox split off. In 1517, the Reformation began with an ex-priest, Martin Luther, and this gave rise to Protestantism. Since then, there have been over 30,000+ denominations created by mere men, based on different doctrines created by personal interpretation/perversion of the Scriptures. "

    Rachel to kim wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:25 PM:

    " I know my bible... and calling out un-biblical doctrine, is what God wants us to do boldly. I think that you have the view you have, because it is directed at your faith.

    Once again, my grandmother is catholic. Just because I will never pray to Mary, and don't mind saying that it is un-biblical doesn't mean I hate catholics, or my grandmother.

    But the point here is, that we have freedom of speech, and you should try not to get offended.
    It's not personal... it's the product of my studies. "

    Kim wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:38 AM:

    " Rachel,I am sorry that I wrote the wrong thing,(saying obviously)but you should understand that you are taking the wrong tactic to spread the word that you believe.You've made smug remarks that take away from your point(i.e.your tidings& clueless remarks).Casting dispersions against people &their religous beliefs is wrong & offends God.Why not just talk about your positive beliefs without deliberately attacking different religions.You have your belief system &I have mine.I am not saying that yours are wrong nor that mine is better.I am seeking knowledge of other beliefs because of curiosity & it helps me understand people a little better.God Bless. "

    To kim. wrote on Aug 11, 2008 11:56 AM:

    " you said I am obviously one of those people... well you're wrong. My family (the majority) are catholics. I have studied catholicism, been to mass, and still do not agree with it. I am sorry that you are offended by that. I do not hate catholics, nor did i ever say you weren't going to heaven... I said that I don't practice A,B,C for such-n-such reason. You pray for souls to go to heaven but i don't??? wow. anyway, God bless you... You are clueless but I still hope God blesses you...
    Rachel "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 11, 2008 11:51 AM:

    " I am not brainwashed, nor did I ever say I hated Catholics. Makes me wonder if you're one of the "smart ones".
    Non-denominational Christian faith... is not a cult. Nice try.

    and also, people ARE entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, and that is why I am voicing mine...

    God bless and have a good day!
    Rachel "

    jobe wrote on Aug 10, 2008 9:52 PM:

    " Stop arguing about who is right or wrong. Its pointless. just go about living a good life.

    This is why i dislike christians, nothing but constant banter and arguments.. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, even if it isnt what you think they should have.


    Stop fighting and get over it. "

    To Rachael wrote on Aug 9, 2008 4:14 PM:

    " Rachael there are two types of people that are devout Catholics - people of great faith in the Lord & very intelligent people. Could this be why you were brainwashed in your cult to hate Catholics? "

    Kim wrote on Aug 9, 2008 9:40 AM:

    " I believe that there is enough room in heaven for us all.(Reguardless of what religion we chose to follow in life)I pray for all souls to go to heaven, yours included.(Something tells me you do not)I honestly enjoy hearing different takes from those who are of a different belief system than mine.It is always better to hear about a religion from someone who is actually a member.One should not assume what they believe,nor should you take as gospel what has been told to you from a person who is in your particular church.A Open heart is an open mind. "

    Kim wrote on Aug 9, 2008 8:52 AM:

    " Rachel you are entitled to believe what you want to believe.I have not exactly been on this forum defending my religion.I was trying to enlighten you on the beliefs.I know a lot of people who harbor destain for Catholics do so because they have been told what Catholics believe.You obviously are one of those people.As far as those who say Catholics don't follow the Bible that is not true.I believe the problem is that we have different Bibles.In parts they are the same, but your religion chose to edit some of the books out. "

    To whomever this concerns... wrote on Aug 9, 2008 8:14 AM:

    " What you see with Rachel is not 'pride' but someone that is 'sure' someone that is following in the teachings of her faith, someone that has come to a higher level of understanding…This comes with accepting Jesus as her personal savior-and-receiving…the--baptism-of-the-Holy…Spirit, applying the Word of God to her day to day life, time in prayer, and giving of herself unselfishly…To many that are not on that level yet it looks like pride because it brings judgment to their hearts without her saying a word (with the exception of this single dimensional format) Keep the fire burning Rachel. "

    To Rachel wrote on Aug 8, 2008 8:38 PM:

    " You are proud of your personal blog site but you don't post the link. Christians spread the Word of God with openness. You must be bad mouthing the Catholic Church for personal revenge, . "

    To Kim wrote on Aug 8, 2008 7:18 PM:

    " What you see with Rachel is not 'pride' but someone that is 'sure' someone that is following in the teachings of her faith, someone that has come to a higher level of understanding…This comes with accepting Jesus as her personal savior-and-receiving…the--baptism-of-the-Holy…Spirit, applying the Word of God to her day to day life, time in prayer, and giving of herself unselfishly…To many that are not on that level yet it looks like pride because it brings judgment to their hearts without her saying a word (with the exception of this single dimensional format) Keep the fire burning Rachel. "

    Charity wrote on Aug 8, 2008 4:54 PM:

    " Good-buddy, looks like we got us a wall-to-wall convoy of Holy-rollers haulin' their intolerant manure into The Queen City. I don't reckon they'll make it up the steep grade to Paradise City with that unholy load. Well, good buddy, I'm about to put the hammer down and back on outta here with my load of hurricane relief aid. Keep the love-bugs off your glass and the intolerant Bible-thumpers off your tail for Sanity's sake. We'll catch you on the flip-flop. Charity on the side but not forgotten... "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 8, 2008 4:12 PM:

    " Matthew 5:17-19: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 8, 2008 4:07 PM:

    " To kim... It's funny how when you talk about your beliefs you're simply talking but when I say mine, I'm "proud".

    That just revealed your true colors. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 8, 2008 4:04 PM:

    " to kim- continued...
    Get used to people not having the same views as you if you are to interact with the public in forums. Not everyone believes in the Catholic doctrine, just as not everyone believes in my non-denominational faith. I have told you why I don't practice it... I will not pray to Mary, confess my sins to a priest, etc. Don't be offended by it so much. And as for tithes, there are times I couldn't give all, but God always honored me enough to give me enough to tithe...He's faithful in His promises. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:58 PM:

    " To Kim... first of all I am not PROUD. I am here in a forum expressing my views. You have been all over these forums defending your faith, and that's what I'm doing to mine. And explaining things people don't understand. For you to come at me with scriptures like you're somehow more "Christian" than I am, like I don't know them, shows your proud. I know the scriptures which is why I am not prideful. I am simply voicing my views on a forum. continued... "

    Former Catholic Rachel is anti-Catholic bigot wrote on Aug 8, 2008 3:34 PM:

    " Rachel wrote "I do blogs daily (not here) on religion." She also wrote "I do a blog... that is not daily." Rachel can't keep lies straight!!! Tell us the URL for your bigoted religious blog!! Stop hiding your bigoted religious blog from us!!!!!!

    Most of the daily anti-Catholic comments on Forum are from one sick woman Rachel (not real name)!!!!!! "Papal Apologies" written by "Former Catholic" is part of Rachels anti-Catholic smearing. Former Catholic Rachel is not tricking us, daily smearing the Rosary, Virgin Mary, Saints and Pope everywhere she blogs. "

    Kim wrote on Aug 8, 2008 8:35 AM:

    " Rachel,Remember that God opposes the proud, even if they are right. "The Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to every one, an apt teacher,forbearing, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth"(2 Tim. 2:24-25).If you want to be more effective take a more tolerant & gentle approch.(Most Catholics tithe enough so that those who are too poor to tithe still can hear the word of the Lord.We are also allowed to tithe to charitable organizations & the like, especially those that minister to the poor.) "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 7, 2008 4:20 PM:

    " also, to "to rachel"... no i'm not surprised in the least... I deal in conversations with agnostics and atheists daily as part of my ministry and nothing surprises me. not even being called a cultist... i have heard it all a million times and it doesn't bother me in the least. God knows my heart, and i could care less if people who are working for the wrong side don't like me.... even if they're not aware who they're working for. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 7, 2008 4:18 PM:

    " When you have enough faith and LOVE for God, you tithe AND give freely... and He never breaks His promise to return it.

    To Kim.... in most lies, there are bits of truth.... that's how satan makes people believe him. To deny that God's word is infalliable , is giving in to the lies of the devil... no words were too big for me. The spiritually dead can't understand spiritual truth... that is where you are having the barriers you have... and same for Butch... I understand the big words, but you'll never understand what I say. "

    Truth wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:20 AM:

    " ...Continued...

    and tithing became hypocritical, done as a legalistic duty bout with no inner piety.


    In addition to tithing, the Bible speaks of freewill offerings. Such giving was to be done freely, joyfully and in proportion to one’s income (I Cor.16:2). The New Testament does not command Christians to tithe, but it is very clear that we ought to be generous in our giving. God promises to bless those who give generously. "

    Truth wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:18 AM:

    " God, who owns everything, expects a return from what he has given to us. The Old Testament laws required the giving of tithes, that is, one tenth of produce or property. Such giving was a form of tax through which priests and Levites received their support. God, in turn, promised that he would meet the daily needs of his people. Two problems developed with tithing: God’s people fell victim to the sin of greed and stopped tithing in order to keep more for themselves; .... continued... "

    Kim wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:55 AM:

    " Continued for Rachel-Compulsory tithing under the law in the Old Testament does not translate to giving under grace in the New Testament.The New Testament does not compel Christians,but rather invites them to give generously in response to the needs of others, and as an expression of their love for God (CP 1Cor 16:1-2; 2Cor 8:1-15; 9:1-15; Ga 6:6-8; Jas 2:13-17; 1Jn 3:16-19).We learn from these scriptures that New Testament giving is voluntary, spontaneous and freely given, not from a sense of obligation nor with an "INTENT TO MERIT BLESSINGS". Giving is to be seen as a privilege, not an obligation. "

    Kim wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:39 AM:

    " Rachel, exactly what is it that Butch wrote that was confusing? Which words were too big?Much of what Butch wrote is true.It is a fact that not all of the writings of the original apostles made it into the good book.Editing is nothing new to mankind.Have you ever heard of the Gospel of Mary? I find this to be most interesting, and highly plausible. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/131/story_13186_1.html
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/mary.html "

    To Christine wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:48 PM:

    " The reasons are of a Spiritual nature. The Bible was written by men inspired by God. If it wasn't God inspired, not anointed by God, it was left out. The Catholic Bibles didn't have them for years as well but someone decided that they needed to be included. I think this was something that happened in my lifetime, though it may be hard to prove. The 'when' isn't as important as the 'why' because of the last statement of the Bible starting at Rev. 22:18-21 "

    To Rachel wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:34 PM:

    " I know you're not taken back, or even surprised by what you have coming at you. I'm glad to see that someone, besides myself, stands up for righteousness strongly. That takes courage and strength of character as well as roots that run deep into your walk of faith. When you have this type of fortitude the storms that come are met by Psalms 91, The Shield of Faith. But, as I said in one of my posts, God says we’re to not cast our pearls before swine, Mt. 7:6 and there are pigs in the parlor. "

    Jarred James Breaux wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:19 PM:

    " Christine, when the protestant Church of England removed several books from the Bible because they did not believe them to be relevant. However, many of the Dead Sea Scrolls were never included in the Bible. There are another sets of scrolls, such as those of the Nag Hammadi library and the Berlin Codex. Very interesting reading for those with an open mind. "

    Christine wrote on Aug 5, 2008 5:14 PM:

    " I am a Pentacostal Christian. Recently I read the Dead Sea Scrolls. That event rocked my whole world. Much of what is written in the scrolls are not in my KJV Bible, but they are in the Catholic Bible. Can someone explain this to me? "

    Knows wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:12 PM:

    " (The preceding is one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy: “Admonish the sinner”.) "

    Knows wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:10 PM:

    " " NEWS FLASH!!!! I’ve been reading all of these posts on this forum and have information for all of you who call yourselves “former Catholics”, “ Used to be Catholic”,etc…. If you were baptized Catholic, you are always a Catholic, on this earth and after death, regardless where you end up. When you received the Sacrament of Baptism, you, or your godparents, took vows. These vows are unbreakable and eternal. So, before you start defaming the Catholic Church, I’d advise that you study the Catechism to learn where you are in error and return to full Communion with the Church. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:31 PM:

    " Another note: I do a blog... that is not daily. I also do not do blogs about catholics, etc all the time. I have ONE blog about catholicism, which specifically states that I am NOT trying to insult the catholic faith, but am rather, stating the reasons I don't participate in it. Half of my family are catholics. Don't jump before you have all the facts. The other blogs are ONLY to bring glory to God, so believe me... God has no problem with what I do, believe me. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:02 PM:

    " First of all, I was never a catholic and therefore could not be an x-catholic. secondly, if you would pay attention... Mary is the mother of God... very honorable... however... she is a human and dead and it's forbidden in the bible to communicate with the dead... which is what you do when you pray to her. I am a non-denominational Christian, and while I respect the catholic church, I will not participate in un-biblical doctrine... Get your facts straight lol... cultist... that was almost cute.
    God bless. "

    Rachel to Butch wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:00 PM:

    " I really hope you don't think those big words and that attempt to confuse people worked for you... trying to sound smart doesn't make you smart, Butch... everyone can get onto Wilkipedia and paste "facts"... you should try harder than that next time.
    You're really a waste of my time...
    I will pray that you open your eyes a little more so that you can help people instead of insulting the bible...
    God bless.
    Rachel "

    to deluded cultest Rachel wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:07 PM:

    " Something happened to misguided ex-Catholic RACHEL. Too coward to post her name and the name of man-made cult she blogs for daily when DEFAMING The Holy Catholic Church, The Virgin Mary and Priests. God sees all her WICKEDNESS on forums. Her sick daily anti-Catholic bloging is not of God's grace for she does not bring GLORY UNTO HIM ~ONLY DISGRACE AND FALSE PRIDE UNTO HERSELF !!!!!!! The wine and host are the body and blood of Jesus Christ but she REJECTED HIM and suffers from with bad cult behavior of too much hatred!!!!!!!!!! "

    Butch wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:34 AM:

    " The-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-were-most-likely-written-by-Essenes{debated} during-the period-from-about 200BC to 68AD. Essenes aren't mentioned in the New Testament. Essenes were a strict Torah observant, Messianic, new-covenant Jewish sect. They were led by a priest called "Teacher of Righteousness"{Jesus?} who was opposed and probably executed{debated} by the establishment priesthood in Jerusalem, but long before the Biblical Jesus. Although the Qumran community existed during the time of Biblical Jesus, none of the Dead-Sea-Scrolls refer to Jesus, nor do they mention any of Jesus' followers described in New Testament. Please debate this subject, instead of me.
    Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:30 AM:

    " To get back on subject of inquiry, try reading http://virtualreligion.net/iho/dss.html

    The Dead Sea Scrolls are a threat to the current Jewish State and Christianity, because there is heated debate as to whether they alter traditional interpretations of Jewish history{promised land} and Christian origins{Jesus}. Read some of the complicated political maneuvering, with accusations of corruption and conspiracy, which has occurred since the Dead Sea Scrolls were first found in 1947. The Vatican's back-room deals will never be known. This gives you a glimpse into the Bible's creation by political men centuries ago. Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Aug 5, 2008 9:20 AM:

    " Still mostly off subject and circling because of Rachel's dishonest diversion into blasphemy. A blasphemer doesn't have to believe in a religion's God to commit blasphemy against something that religion considers scared. Rachel is a blasphemer of Muslim faith and Catholic faith, but I don't care. She uses blasphemy to condemn and silence, I used it to show RSPs folly of condemnation. Most RSPs, who preach the same blasphemy against the Catholic faith as Rachel, also literally believe the Catholic Church is the Antichrist. Jesus said to love others as you have loved Him.
    Butch66 "

    Rachel... to was a catholic wrote on Aug 4, 2008 10:55 PM:

    " isn't God good?
    people get so offended when tithing is mentioned... if they only knew.
    God bless you. "

    Was A Catholic wrote on Aug 4, 2008 12:19 PM:

    " Kim, I agree with you. However, I've learned that in having faith, in focusing on how to live my life as a Christian and trying to follow God's word, that tithing is a part of that. Circumcision, well, if a baby is circumcised, his parents deal with that choice. We can go back and forth picking apart the bible, but as you said, the bottom line is faith, and I'll add, forgiveness. Faith and Forgiveness. I did find out that in tithing consistently, our family has all our needs met, and more. God's love is abundant! "

    KTISMENOS YIA PROSKYNISI wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:42 PM:

    " Butch, we're not pretending, condemning, or faking word definitions. I for one have given straight from the bible, from Greek and Hebrew text. If you can't accept that, well, that's your problem. I'm glad to see people talking about Gods word because there are a lot of misconceptions out there. But ultimately it's up to the individual to search their own heart and soul and make up their own mind-to-what-is-right. We are tri-fold beings, mind-will-and-emotions. The deceiver will find the weakest point of that individual to bring on the deception--If-I-mislead someone--I-will-have-to-answer-to-God-for-it--ergo--I'm careful. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:37 PM:

    " """"An educated person could look at the entire historical record that leads to the final version of the Bible and prove it was corrupted by many men throughout history.""""

    You called the bible corrupted... that is blasphemy to the Holy Spirit just in your thoughts... so my post has EVERYTHING to do with your post. Read a little past the surface if you are capable.

    The bible was not corrupted... the bible changes words occasionally when we come into better understanding of ancient languages...
    Rachel "

    Rachel... amused. wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:35 PM:

    " I can't be a blasphemer to the muslim faith lol... they don't worship my God... You're really grabbing at straws Butch... stemming from you not recognizing the literal from the sarcastic with the 666 thing... very mature of you.
    By the way, I'm not Catholic... Catholics pray to Mary, call a priest father, and pray in repetition. I don't... it is not "biblical". Neither is substantiation, or sacraments, etc etc...

    You should all be careful of how you SAY you're not blaspheming, but you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit by doubting at all.

    God bless. "

    Rachel wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:29 PM:

    " You're quite the assumer... I'm not Catholic. "

    Here For A Reason wrote on Aug 3, 2008 3:16 PM:

    " Even Satan knows that their is only One Master. You either chose to partake of Satan's System (present) or follow God's will to enjoy his eternal Kingdom. Every soul comes from above and at death the flesh body goes in the ground and the soul goes back to Him. God knows how to steer those worth steering. Everyone of us are purposely sent to tell of God's goodness as generations pass until He comes to judge. He blesses those who do His work. Blasphemers will be dealt with. "

    Kim wrote on Aug 3, 2008 9:12 AM:

    " To OMG I cant believe Rachel words of hate- I missed the part where Rachel said she was Catholic. Did she really say that? "

    Butch wrote on Aug 2, 2008 10:23 AM:

    " Pretenses of condemnation and word definitions are dishonest diversions away from my letter's original subject of inquiry. These religiously superior players {RSPs} won't address my letter's original subject with all this unlimited space because they can't. No one can have a meaningful discussion with RSPs because you'll be chasing them around in circles about every irrelevant subject and condemnation they can contrive. Life is too short for that retarted game. My letter's original subject of inquiry wasn't me or my soul, so I would thank RSPs to mind their own souls and stop their hate. Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Aug 2, 2008 10:19 AM:

    " A blasphemer lacks proper respect or seriousness toward something considered scared. I showed proper respect with my serious inquiry about the Bible, so I'm not a blasphemer. The Koran states it's blasphemy for anyone to claim that Jesus is Son of God, so Rachel is a blasphemer of Muslim faith. As I said in my previous letter about "acting on religious moral Judgments," playing the religiously superior game the way some do is dangerous. Some here are blasphemers {hyperbole} against knowledge {close-minded} and tolerance {hate mongers}.Butch66 "

    Remember history wrote on Aug 2, 2008 7:00 AM:

    " So God doesn't exist? MAN WILL YOU BE SURPRISED WHEN YOU DIE!!!!! What are you going to tell him? "You aren't supposed to be here!!". You may not believe in God, but He believes in you. "

    OMG I cant believe Rachel words of hate---- wrote on Aug 2, 2008 2:39 AM:

    " Rachel wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:24 PM:
    "Butch66...why don't you just add another 6 to give us
    the complete pic of how you are...Homosexuality is
    wrong."

    OMG Rachel! You are not picture of good Catholic. Catholics aren't supposed to pass judgments. We bring lost sheep back into flock with love ,prayer. We don't brand 666 on them with our hate and send them to hxll. Butch said he was hetrosexual. Branding with Satan's mark is wrong no matter what your excuse. "

    KTISMENOS YIA PROSKYNISI wrote on Aug 1, 2008 10:37 PM:

    " And sleeper, Obama is not my god, speaking of power hungry madmen to control the masses, my God is Lord, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, The Mighty One, God the King, The Holy One, The Great I Am, The Sovereign Lord, The Eternal God, God of all who live and breath, The One that will NOT be mocked, He is Immortal, Infinite, Invisible, All-Knowing, Omnipresent, Unchanging, Incomparable, Righteous, Perfect, Majestic, Gracious, Spirit, and a Gentleman. I could go on… "

    KTISMENOS YIA PROSKYNISI wrote on Aug 1, 2008 10:33 PM:

    " Ok sleeper, dreamer, Morpheus, you're way out of your league. Yes, My God would condemn a good man, there are many good men that will split h&ll wide open. And He's an Awesome God. He gave the conditions of ascension to heaven in His Word. We 'must' accept Jesus Christ-Jn.1:17-ICo.8:9-Eph.1:6-7---We cannot earn it by good works-Ro.11:6--IITi.1:9---We cannot earn it by keeping the law-Ro.6:14--Gal.2:16, Salvation comes as a gift from God, we can do nothing to earn it. Jesus is the 'Only' way, not Gandhi by Hinduism or Buddhism or any other god or good man. "

    morpheus wrote on Aug 1, 2008 3:01 PM:

    " Your "god" is simply a creation of power hungry madmen to control the masses. To whoever said the thing about moses and the book of the dead, i agree. I have a copy of it, the ten commandments are based on 129 spells for surviving in the underworld. If people would stop fighting about things like religion there would be more peace.

    for you christians, do you believe ghandi is going to suffer eternal damnation because he was a hindu or buddist? what kind of god would condemn a great man just for not following some book? "

    Kim wrote on Aug 1, 2008 12:34 PM:

    " Was a Catholic, why is it you think tithing is more important?Just because it says so in the Bible?The Bible also says Galatians 5:2-4 Mark my words!I,Paul,tell you that if you let yourself be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.(to bible thumpers I know what this refers to no explanation needed.)So, the word of God is free of charge in the Catholic church to the poor.How is that a terrible thing?Its having faith thats counts. "

    Rachel to Butch wrote on Aug 1, 2008 8:59 AM:

    " Butch, I did not either assume you were gay, or condemn you. Please look up the definition to condemnation. Also, take a look at all your post and look up blasphemy. Please tell me that you can't find it somewhere. (I did). And there's no trouble explaining... just not enough room. As far as saying you're the antichrist... do you really think I think you are the antichrist? Come on now. P.s. if you are going to question the bible as WHOLE truth, then you might as well not even read it. "

    Lin-Z wrote on Aug 1, 2008 8:44 AM:

    " Butch, can you not see that you can't pick and chose which parts of the Bible you want to believe. It's God's word. Accept it or reject it. Your choice. There is no negotiating with my Lord!!! "

    Chuck wrote on Aug 1, 2008 5:45 AM:

    " In defense of the "Bible Thumpers", I will give them credit about "faith". Sometimes faith is all that's necessary even when proof is nonexistent or difficult to locate. An example: Do you love your parents? You do? Prove it. Most people would be stumped to find the proof, because the "proof" cannot be seen. It's felt. It's in their heart. So, faith does have merit regarding "God's Word". I still doubt some of what I've read in the bible, but that's me. I still agree with Butch, but have always recognized the other side of the coin. Ok, I'm done. "

    Butch wrote on Jul 31, 2008 9:52 PM:

    " I believe God wants everyone to find His Truths and live like Jesus. My belief in God comes from my Catholic upbringing {birthplace} and my observations of the glorious Universe {science}. You don't need to believe every word in the Bible is "truth" to believe in God. The forum has plenty of space for honest, open discussion, but some Godly people run into trouble when shown other possible explanations. They use condemnation to silence, just like Early Christianity did. Everyone should be on an open quest for truth.

    Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Jul 31, 2008 9:42 PM:

    " Rachel said she doesn't hate me, but then condemned me as the Antichrist. I do try to live like Jesus and follow The Golden Rule. Rachel, I do believe in God, so watch your many untruthful words of condemnation. I'm also not gay, but some assumed I was because I wanted respect for gays. They condemned me. Honestly questioning parts of the Bible isn't blasphemy, because Jesus didn't say "the Roman Catholic Church has the final word on Biblical truths." The Bible says Jesus will Judge...doesn't say Catholic Pope or Rachel.

    Butch66 "

    Rachel wrote on Jul 31, 2008 5:31 PM:

    " Hosea-6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

    Matthew-10:32-33
    32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. "

    Rachel wrote on Jul 31, 2008 5:23 PM:

    " Guess what Butch? Without God, there would be no science and you wouldn't have breath. And believe me I am far too familiar with your kind... I do blogs daily (not here) on religion, and all the ins and out. Not one thing you have said can be verified. Been there and done that in other forums. This forum does not have the space to show you exactly how ignorant you are, and it's a good thing because you'd inevitably retreat with your tail between your legs. So, you have a nice day now...May-God-have-mercy-on-your-soul-for-blasphemy. "

    Joanne wrote on Jul 31, 2008 2:46 PM:

    " Butch, It does not matter how many times you start this topic over, as I see you have begun a THIRD area of discussion, the end result is the same- The BIBLE is the Word of God. Your condemnation of it's Words, your exploring and analysis, your questions and theory- all will lead you to the same place. Your frustration in this matter should take you from the forum to someone in the Clergy area of whatever denomination you worship through. God bless you, as there is still hope for you, which Christ provided! "

    Faithful wrote on Jul 31, 2008 2:18 PM:

    " The bottom line is, even Satan knows that their is one Master (Almighty God)...just like their is one Satan. Ultimately we choose one or the other. That is determined by our faith, character, and our works. How you live your life will determine whether you are a follower of God's Kingdom or Satan's System (present world). When you come into the truth or be saved, you are "dead" to this world and hated. However, God gave Christians power over their enemies and rest assured we will witness the fall of Satan's System. God does not "speak" He gives signs. "

    I love Jesus for what he has do to and for me wrote on Jul 31, 2008 11:01 AM:

    " Science, medicine and history prove the Bible to be of truth and accurate. Also the dead sea scrolls were found untouched for nearly 2000 years, dating back to 1000 A.D. historical manuscripts of Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Syriac, Egyptian, Gothic, Persian and other languages that match with our Bibles today.

    (II Tim. 3:16 KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. "

    Max wrote on Jul 31, 2008 10:09 AM:

    " One pun, two pun, lets have more fun. I thought you would like it if no one else did. Thank goodness this is not Salem I think you would have some very warm toes right now. People will more than likely never think outside the box, the only thing they see is what they have been taught. I'll bet some people on this site have never been out of the state. Proving validity makes us who we are as humans our greatest strength is that very thing. "

    Believer wrote on Jul 31, 2008 8:05 AM:

    " Christ gave us one assignment, to spread His Message throughout the world.
    Not to stand in judgement of our fellow man. "

    Butch wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:52 AM:

    " Is origin of The Ten Commandments found in the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead {"Papyrus of Ani" c1800BC}? For a quick history lesson try reading
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10cl.htm
    http://www.crystalinks.com/tencommandments.html

    Moses was allegedly raised by an Egyptian Pharaoh and was an Egyptian Prince. He would have been schooled in the teachings of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Is this theory for origin of The Ten Commandments retarded or plausible?
    Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:23 AM:

    " Max, fired up? Fond of fire are you? Or was that a pun? Look out, brother, or you may find yourself accused of being Max666. Haven't you heard I'm the Antichrist, come to rule the world right here from little ole Louisiana, just like the Bible says? Sorry, but this subject is very heavy, so I hope a little humor is welcome...
    Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Jul 31, 2008 7:03 AM:

    " While most ancient Greek manuscripts of the New Testament have the number 666 in Rev 13:18, some ancient manuscripts have 616, which may be the older original versions of Rev 13:18. How and why was it changed to 666 in some ancient manuscripts? Did God change it or man? The proposal that 616 is the older and better version of Rev 13:18 was bolstered by some newly published Oxyrhynchus Papyri. Rachel, if you want to say I'm the Antichrist, then God may want you to use 616. Science and open-minded inquiry to the rescue.
    Butch66 "

    Butch wrote on Jul 31, 2008 6:59 AM:

    " I wondered how long it would take for some Godly person to say my name should be Butch666. Fortunately, we don't live during time of Early Christianity because I would be burned alive at the stake for open-minded inquiry into Biblical truths. Amazing how Rachel brings up 666 when this Bible "truth" is inconsistent among original ancient manuscripts. It's only one small inconsistency among many bigger ones found in the Bible.

    Butch66 "

    ST wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:37 PM:

    " FIRST OF ALL...what makes you think THAT many people would follow 1 person out of Egypt if there were no GOD doing those miracles? How did they escape the Egyptian empire if God didn't part the Red Sea for them to escape and closed it back on the Egyptians? Me personally, I aint just following some guy out into the desert if there aint no signs of a higher power guiding him. So your theory on Moses is retarded. Man did write the Bible but God gave them the words to write. But I guess you wouldn't understand that... "

    Max wrote on Jul 29, 2008 8:18 PM:

    " Butch66, I like how you get them all fired up. "

    Rachel wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:24 PM:

    " Butch66... why don't you just add another 6 to give us the complete pic of how you are...
    Homosexuality is wrong... no matter how you want to put it.
    That doesn't mean we hate gays... it means we hate their sin... "

    Rich aka N.C. wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:23 PM:

    " Gods word is foolishness to those who are perishing. Without faith in Christ, and a relationship with Him, one cannot understand.

    I challenge skeptics to suppose its real and seek God with your heart. In private. Seek Him and you will find Him and then your will understand. "

    Rachel wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:22 PM:

    " The bible has stood the test of time... there are no inconsistencies, only blinded eyes that have been veiled. When you know the Lord, the "inconsistencies" piece themselves together and your eyes are WIDE OPEN... Until then, you will continue to find things and doubt things... satan loves to hide the truth, and he's good at it. The bible was written in 3 different languages, over many many years, 66 different books by many authors... all inspired by God. Otherwise the parts that weren't inspired, would be removed by GOD HIMSELF by now. "

    Rachel wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:13 PM:

    " Boy you people are totally clueless... and most of the allegations above are outright lies... nice going.
    God bless you. "

    Bible Christian Society wrote on Jul 29, 2008 5:03 PM:

    " What came first, the Catholic Church or the Bible (new testament)? The answer is the Catholic Church and from the Church came the new Testament. "

    Max wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:37 PM:

    " Religion is the best way to control the masses, this has been proven time and time again. Doing your own research look for the one preacher and twelve followers theme, and you will find that very theme in more religions than you think. Your own history of the USA is being changed for other reasons right before your eyes. If the people who read this don't think the bible, or any other book was written, revised,or parts hidded, for one person or another groups benefit they would be poorly mistaken. Read more than one point of view! "

    Chuck wrote on Jul 29, 2008 3:00 PM:

    " Your interpretation of the bible's stance on homosexuality is just that. Yours. It's not explicit at all. If it were, we would not have the need for this forum. Some argue it is not homosexuality that is referenced, but rape. There is a distinct difference between the two, I'm sure you would agree. If someone does not agree with your interpretation of a bible passage then they must be wrong. Is that how it works? Not the way I see it. My interpretation may not necessarily be correct, but neither could yours. And in case you're wondering, I'm heterosexual. "

    Sid wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:40 PM:

    " The Bible is pretty explicit when it comes to homosexuality,there is no cherry picking.As Christians,we are not to judge but we are compelled to love one another and to treat one another as we would want to be treated.By saying the Bible is unsubstantiated you are saying there is no God and if there is no God there is no hope and life is meaningless.Then it's okay to kill babies in the womb and old folks when they can't take care of themselves.It's a world I choose not to belong to.I'll keep believing the Word of God. "

    I wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:05 PM:

    " The Bible was wriiten by God through those people chosen like Mary was to birth Jesus. Jesus said that their would be apostacy that would happen after his death. The Bible still remains true till this day. Just because people can not conform to Bible standards gives no one the right to bash it. God will indeed deal with those who add to or take away what he intended in the Bible! "

    Where did we get the Bible wrote on Jul 28, 2008 6:53 PM:

    " Who decided which books of the Bible belonged?

    Answer: The Roman Catholic Bishops "

    Bible Church founded by Christ wrote on Jul 28, 2008 6:50 PM:

    " What is the "Pillar and Foundation of Truth"? There's only one answer and it is NOT the Bible. But the Bible has the answer. It is 1 Tim. 3:15. Keep in mind there was only ONE Christian faith when this was written founded by Christ. All others were founded by mere men (look it up). For more on this subject go to biblechristiansociety.com "

    Research it Yourself wrote on Jul 28, 2008 4:46 PM:

    " God, by nature created us with the intuiveness to know right from wrong. Just as hunger pangs let us know we are hungry, just as the tiny hairs on our bodies let us distinguish cold & heat. Just as a woman's breast throb when it't time to feed her baby. He has instilled a yearning for truth. Woe to those wayward preachers, self-righteous scientist, atheist and unbelievers. As the dinosaurs perished in God's flood, so will they perish. Refrain from all evil. Respect God's HOLY DAYS and not HOLIDAYS based on practices that infused Christian with Heathen to deceive people. "

    Believer wrote on Jul 28, 2008 12:51 PM:

    " Jesus, and Jesus alone paid the price for you to go to heaven. YOU can't get there on your own. Only thru Him. "

    Chuck wrote on Jul 28, 2008 5:59 AM:

    " There may still be unknown peoples who have never been exposed to modern civilization and all the amenities it has to offer, so it stands to reason they may have never seen a bible, let alone read and/or understand one. Does that mean they are doomed for all eternity? NOT! I agree with Butch. The bible is a book written by men with opinions that were shared as ONE POSSIBLE interpretation of its "message". They could've been wrong. Because YOUR interpretation of that book is not followed does not mean guaranteed condemnation. You could be wrong too. "

    don wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:33 PM:

    " Can butch or any of you theologist tell me what it takes to get to heaven? Probably not but the question still remains.... "

    don wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:25 PM:

    " for seeking answeres:Acts:2:38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost Word of The Mighty God creator of heaven and Earth "

    don wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:20 PM:

    " For seeking answeres Jn:1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Jn:1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Mk:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Jn:3:5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "

    What wrote on Jul 27, 2008 7:24 PM:

    " I'm not a historian, but Rome DID NOT fall because there were “too many Christian Sects”! There was only one Christianity. Rome fell because of their “co-co” emperors (Nero, Caligula, etc…) and because of government mismanagement and their total excesses. Christians and other human beings were thrown to the lions, burned at the stake, and the like. Regarding the Dark Ages, the Christian (Catholic) Church ushered in the Renaissance, promoting art, music, sculpture…. Michael Angelo did painting and sculptures we still have today. Composers wrote music originally for the Mass. It is amazing to me how ignorance abounds. "

    Truth wrote on Jul 27, 2008 11:14 AM:

    " LOL! I stand corrected. "

    bububr wrote on Jul 27, 2008 10:54 AM:

    " First one must realize that the Bible IS NOT the word of a god, but the writings of men inspired by a god.

    The Bible WAS edited and parts REWRITTEN to be somewhat consistant. This happened during the Council of Nicea.

    As for the excuse that Rome fell because of its ways, Christianity was the cause of the DARK AGES. Rome fell because there were TOO MANY varying Christian sects and they were causing dissidence.

    There is nothing wrong with faith, but blind faith is not a good thing.

    Know the origins of your beliefs. "

    Josephine wrote on Jul 26, 2008 10:03 PM:

    " Butch66, you need to pray that you are right, because honey if you are not the fires are awaiting your life whether straight or gay, happy or sad, intelligent or idiot. Condemning the Bible. Claiming this is NOT the Word of God. Questioning theology that is studied by true theologians, even scientists trying to pick it apart, and those who pick and choose from the Bible, or not, to suit their own personal needs, wants and gains of life. If you can sit in judgment of the Word of God, prepare to burn... it's that simple. "

    To Truth wrote on Jul 26, 2008 5:17 PM:

    " " Your chance to except Jesus as Savior is now "


    If you "except" Jesus that means you are shunning him. You really want to "accept" Jesus. That is the better choice! "

    Truth wrote on Jul 26, 2008 3:04 PM:

    " The name of the church that you attend will have NO bearing on where you go. What makes the difference will be your relationship with your heavenly father. John 3:3 Being born again is necessary because we are dead in sin. It is a work that God, particularly the Holy Spirit, accomplishes. Spiritual rebirth occurs when we believe in Jesus, and it results in salvation through Christ and new life through the Spirit, The assurance of eternal life, victory over our old sinful live style, so-that-we-do-what-is-right-as-a-new-creation-of-God, and-safety-from-the-attacks-of-Satan-and-his-followers. "

    Truth wrote on Jul 26, 2008 2:58 PM:

    " Your chance to except Jesus as Savior is now, before you die. After death, your choice is considered already made. You can believe in Jesus, but if you have not accepted Him as your personal savior before you die, you will split h&ll wide open. You can be a good person, living a good life, doing all the right things, but unless you accept Jesus as your personal savior before you die, you will suffer in h&ll for all of eternity. No more choices. "

    seeking answers wrote on Jul 26, 2008 2:56 AM:

    " Did I correctly understand the Catechism? What happens to non-Catholics, atheists and agnostics when they get the particular judgment? Do they go to H&ll or purgatory? Does everybody get a second chance to be saved by Jesus if they accept Jesus as savior after he resurrects them? Are ghosts on earth the souls of people sent to purgatory? "

    seeking answers wrote on Jul 26, 2008 2:54 AM:

    " Before the Last Judgment, Jesus in human form will return to earth (Christ's 2nd coming) with his Holy Angels, and every soul will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Resurrected people will then be given one last chance to accept Jesus as savior. Those who refuse to accept Jesus will be cast into H&ll after Jesus and his followers defeat the Anti-Christ and his followers. After this final battle between good and evil, God will restore the earth and "transform" the cosmos and humanity. God, Jesus and his few_followers_will_continue_to_be_in_human_form_and_live_in_Heaven_on_earth_for_eternity. "

    seeking answers wrote on Jul 26, 2008 2:49 AM:

    " I think this is the Catholic Catechism about Heaven and H&ll, and body and soul. Most will go to H&ll, but few will go to Heaven. H&ll is primarily the separation from God for all eternity, where the desire for God's presence will be an unquenchable, all-consuming desire which is similar to an unquenchable, all-consuming fire, but there is no fire in H&ll. When someone dies, Jesus immediately does particular judgment of their soul. The soul is immediately sent to (a)God's Heaven if person was Saint, (b)H&ll if person has mortal sin, or (c)Purgatory to purify soul_before_Last_Judgment. "

    caliguy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:34 PM:

    " The bible is not the word of god. It is merely a history of the Jewish People (the old testament) and a bunch of nonsense thrown together by some cults that existed approximately 2000 years ago (the new testament). If one believes in the god described in the bible, then he or she is doomed to a pitiful existence. "

    Kim wrote on Jul 24, 2008 12:48 PM:

    " Still seeking answers here is a link that may help you understand the Catholic Church beliefs on heaven &H&LL
    http://198.62.75.12/www1/CDHN/art12.html
    It is part of the Catechism( A book giving a brief summary of the basic principles of Christianity in question-and-answer form.)of the Catholic Church.The information you seek is too long to type on this forum which is why I provided you with the link. I have no idea what the belief is concerning the Baptist view on heaven & H&LL.I know they belive in baptizing when old enough accept Jesus as their savior,and in the Rapture for Christs 2nd coming. "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:50 AM:

    " (Continued): The word, Purgatory, may not appear in the Bible, but is come from the same root as “purge”. Most of us live good lives and do not deserve to go to Hades, but almost everyone has imperfections (resentments, disagreements, etc…) that must be removed before we can be in Heaven. Purgatory is not a place of punishment, but rather a state of purging. The only anguish is having to wait to be with God. "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:40 AM:

    " (Continuing): Someone wrote that the word Purgatory is not in the Bible, however there are many references in the Bible to praying for the dead. If a person is in Heaven, he/she does not need prayers. If a person is in the other place, prayers will do him no good. That is why we believe in a place we call Purgatory. (Continued….) "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:27 AM:

    " To “Still seeking answers”: I can’t say what Baptists believe (there are so many different sects of Baptists, there is no one answer to that), but this is the Catholic belief: When someone dies, there is an individual judgment. At the end of time, all souls will be reunited to their bodies and there will be the General Judgment, when Jesus will "separate the sheep from the goats", "the whest from the weeds". It is all there, for those who read and believe in the Holy Bible. (Continued....) "

    to saved at baptism wrote on Jul 24, 2008 9:59 AM:

    " Just something to think about-if baptism saves a person, then why the thief on the cross got saved when he acknowledged who Jesus was and he was never baptized. That puzzles me. "

    Lets face it wrote on Jul 23, 2008 9:43 PM:

    " It is obviously the people ranting against the Catholic Church, would much rather perpetuate the lies and misrepresentations of the Church than to know the truth.
    Of course there is a lot of money to be made by these so-called preachers when they decide to go into the “church business” and rally a group of unknowing people against a “common enemy”. Before someone joins such a group, he/she should investigate the background of said “ministers”. Ironically, it will be learned that they have very minimal education. "

    Saved at Baptism wrote on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM:

    " There is a lot of "saved" people on death row. Does that mean they are good people and going to Heaven?
    I don't think so! "

    still seeking answers wrote on Jul 23, 2008 5:21 PM:

    " I'm confused why Catholics and Baptists don't know the answers to my July 21 questions about Heaven and H&ll and what happens to body and soul when a believer in Jesus dies? I am beginning to believe no Catholic or Baptist knows what their religion says about Heaven and H&ll. I'm seeking details, not a simple answer like you go to Heaven or H&ll. None of my Christian friends could tell me details because they didn't know. How can Christians believe without even knowing what they believe? Please explain and help me understand. "

    Believer wrote on Jul 23, 2008 11:18 AM:

    " Sorry, just a simple guy with a simple faith and really not up to debate. But I truly am sorry that so many try to complicate simple things. (my last post) "

    to believer wrote on Jul 22, 2008 11:00 PM:

    " I believe it takes a little more than believing. After all Satan believes. So in other words because Satan believes--
    he will go to heaven. "

    Believer wrote on Jul 22, 2008 5:00 PM:

    " He loves you whoever you are or whatever you may think you have become.
    No requirements, no changes, nothing required up front. Just let Him love you and go from there. He said "that who so ever believes" "

    a little confused wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:08 PM:

    " Could you explain what you mean by He loves you and all He wants is for you to love Him back? "

    Believer wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:47 PM:

    " He loves you and all He wants is if for you to love Him back. "

    To seeking answers wrote on Jul 22, 2008 11:25 AM:

    " I don't claim to know it all but from what I studied there is no purgatory in the bible. You make your choice where you are going while you are on this earth. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No man comes to the FATHER except through Him. He died on the cross for my sins and your sins. If you acknowledge Him as Lord and Saviour and have a relationship with Him, that is called born-again and you will go to heaven when you die. It's in Romans in the bible. cont. "

    Believer wrote on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 AM:

    " Start with one simple fact, Christ was the Son of God and he walked among us.
    You being the historian, have to agree, something unusual, happened, was witnessed and documented. There were many witnesses who had nothing to gain that saw him Risen. Don't believe the Bible? Then read Josephus. "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:58 AM:

    " First, thank you for the complements posted. Second, to “Seeking Answers” and others: there are a lot of speculations, rumors, and errors as to what Catholics believe. As I said earlier, many who are Catholics in name only don’t know the doctrines and beliefs of the Church. There are no secrets. Anyone interested in knowing the truth can read the Catechism of the Catholic Church available at any bookstore, and even on line at www.ewtn.com among other websites. You may also watch EWTN on tv and listen to Radio Maria on KNIR 1360 AM. Thanks. "

    Please note wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:22 AM:

    " It's strange how the KKK and other "pentecostal" preachers use their "Christianity" to promote hatred of blacks, Catholics, and Jews. "

    To Remember history wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:07 PM:

    " Good job brother, could not have said it better myself.
    Many protestants believe that the Bible magically appeared one day. It upsets them greatly when they hear that the Jews wrote the Old Testament and the Catholic Church compiled the New Testament. Their taught hatred of Catholicism is predictable yet still sad. "

    RE J.J.Breaux wrote on Jul 21, 2008 9:24 PM:

    " Sentiment of Mark Twain wanting respect for all people is good but only as long as politics and religion aren't used to promote bigotry or hurt people. For instance, no respect for Hitler or Bin Laden. "

    seeking answers wrote on Jul 21, 2008 9:09 PM:

    " I heard that Catholic H&ll is a separation from God for eternity but it is not a hot place with fire and brimestone. I heard Catholic Heaven is 1,000 years of peace on earth after the apocalypse when God restores earth for good Christians who are resurrected. Is that right and where do good people go after the 1,000 years of Heaven on earth? Do people go live with Jesus and God in their Heaven and do people have bodies in Heaven or are they spirits? Do Baptists believe in this same Catholic Heaven and H&ll? "

    Butch wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:41 PM:

    " Authors of the Gospels were constrained to knowledge that existed in primitive times. Their writings are said to be the inspired word of God, but their primitive knowledge was limited to a young, flat, stationary Earth as the center of the Universe. Gospel writings lack any inspiration from a God with infinite knowledge of the Universe. To Christians who say Gospel writings were imagery or figures of speech, then any Bible stories about God doing anything are also. Christianity demands blind faith, but science is a direct result of God's gifts of logic and comprehension.

    Butch66 "

    St Jude wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:36 PM:

    " Are you a theologian? I only say that as you are very precise with your adaptations of this, that and the other according to the Dead Sea Scrolls, beautiful to view I must add, and the Gospels that were selected and those that were not selected. Lots of defense there on a subject that is very close to your heart. I know the feeling. When I changed faiths I was attacked from all sides by family, friends and inbetweens. Myself, I believe the Bible is the Word of God. To each his own belief. "

    Butch wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:32 PM:

    " Great historians don't destroy and repress historical writings, religious beliefs and scientific inquiry, as the Catholic Church has done throughout history, "in the name of God." "

    Butch wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:30 PM:

    " It is not perverted or a trick from the Garden of Eden to question and explore the validity of all religious beliefs and religions. People who are living a religious faith which hasn't been questioned and explored to the best of their mental abilities are living a shallow faith. If you believe the Bible is the word of God only because you want to hedge your bets and not gamble on eternity, then what value will God place on a soul with such a cynical, shallow faith?
    Butch66 "

    Was a Catholic wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:16 PM:

    " Let's talk about something even more important, tithing. The Bible says 10 percent of your earnings. How many Catholic's do that? I had never heard about the 10 percent tithe, not even from the Priest preaching on the altar. The Priest did his 'tithe sermon' in a manner of "give what you can"...that's wrong... it's give 10 percent in God's words. And, you will be blessed immensely for your commitment in giving! When you walk outside of God's boundaries, don't expect His blessing to overflow in any aspect of your life, gay or straight! "

    The truth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 3:10 PM:

    " Butch and all you supposed to be Christians it's because of you there are so many fake religions and In the end most turn into being athest.Inculding musims not 1 of you can prove God is real.God's word says that His word is of no private interpetation. So the question is how do you get the truh out of his word.Let me give you this tidbit, there's a Key a Gift and a Promise you have to find it.IF you can prove it I want either to see him feel him or hear him it's up to you "

    Jarred James Breaux wrote on Jul 21, 2008 3:12 AM:

    " "The ordinary reverence, the reverence defined and explained by the dictionary, costs nothing. Reverence for one's own sacred things--parents, religion, flag, laws and respect for one's own beliefs--these are feelings which we cannot even help. They come natural to us; they are involuntary, like breathing. There is no personal merit in breathing. But the reverence which is difficult, and which has personal merit in it, is the respect which you pay, without compulsion, to the political or religious attitude of a man whose beliefs are not yours." - Mark Twain "

    FOOD for thought wrote on Jul 21, 2008 1:55 AM:

    " Good thing for Christians defending Bible they were born here; otherway, God could have born them in Saudi Arabia and they would believe in Islam as strongly as they now believe in the Christianity. They may have joined al Quedda and gotten their 72 virgins after 911 because the Koran says so. Of course they would still hate homosexuals. "

    tree of knowledge wrote on Jul 20, 2008 11:57 PM:

    " Catholic Bishops flip-flopped on their long standing doctrine that souls of un-baptised babies go to Purgatory. Catholic Priests allowed to marry in past, but not now. If the Holy Spirit guides Bishops, past and present, was there a bad connection to Heaven at the Vatican the first time, or the second time? Jesus never did flip-flop, but Bishops "under the guidance of the Holy Spirit" do? Bishops surrounded by wealth, living in luxury are not immolating Jesus. Religious charlatans flip-flop. Holy Spirit calling Vatican, "Can you hear me now?" "

    Praise Allah wrote on Jul 20, 2008 10:34 PM:

    " The Qur'an is the only true word of God. Christian infidels will all parish. Praise Allah, the one and only God, creator and sustainer of the universe. "

    To Frank wrote on Jul 20, 2008 5:09 PM:

    " Frank, You are so right. I remember reading that Jesus said, "Peter, upon this rock I will build my church." He did not say the catholic church or Peter, you will be the first pope of my church. I believe in the bible Jesus is called the rock as he is called the door, the way. He is called many things and He meant that salvation comes through Him. I'm not putting the catholic church down, I just feel that it's wrong to say the catholic church is the true christian church. "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 20, 2008 5:02 PM:

    " Additionally, being Catholic does NOT mean we cannot own a Bible, read the Bible, share the Bible, or bring our Bibles to church. There are very many Bible study groups in the Catholic Church. Admittedly and unfortunately there are many people who are Catholics in name only and do not practice or even understand the facts that I have explained in these few posts. So it is no wonder that you may have not gotten the correct impression. I beg you to look into the writings of both secular historians, as well as the Church Fathers(the Apostles and their successors). "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 20, 2008 4:21 PM:

    " Continuing: At every Mass are Scripture readings from the Old and New Testaments. Sunday Masses have readings from 1) the Old Testament, 2)the Acts of the Apostles or letters of St. Paul or St. Peter. Then 3) a reading from the Gospels. These readings are selected to coincide with each other to address the same subject: a prophecy concerning Jesus from the Old Testament; a recitation of the words of Jesus, from the Gospels; and teachings from the Apostles after the Resurrection. A person who attends Mass daily, will hear the entire Bible over a three year cycle. "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 20, 2008 3:39 PM:

    " Another thought, Frank: I don’t know when the last time was that you “walked into a Catholic Church”, but the “Bible” is everywhere, from the stain glass windows, to the plaques depicting the Way of the Cross, to the images of Jesus, etc..., to the prayers and readings at Mass. Please realize that, in the early Church, written Scriptures were hand copied(mostly by monks)and thus very rare. Most people learned their faith via visual images and the spoken Word. Only until the invention of the printing press were Bibles generally available, and then, only few people could read.(Will continue...) "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 20, 2008 2:57 PM:

    " Continuing: The Old Testament books were included as they were the ones Jesus studied, but were eliminated later by Judaism by the time the Protestant versions came into existence. It amazes me that other churches and preachers will rant against and defame the Catholic Church, and yet rely on the book that the Catholic Church assembled. "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 20, 2008 2:55 PM:

    " Frank, actually there is much we agree upon. The scriptures you study are NOT flawed, and moreover they DO come from the Catholic Church. I’m assuming that you study the King James Version of the Bible. It is WORD FOR WORD the same as any approved Catholic version. The only differences are five books in the Old Testament, call the Penacook, and some other writing which contained doctrine Martin Luther refused to believe. (continued) "

    Wah- wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:18 PM:

    " " The Christian Church (Catholic Church), at a council of the bishops, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined which Scriptures were truly inspired."

    That's what tradition says. That's what you had to say you believed in those days or else you faced persecution, torture, and death. Be honest about this. "

    Frank Rizzo wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:17 PM:

    " CONTINUED...to read and study Hebrew and Greek to determine the actual message being passed down from the original writers? We may have a difference of opinion as to how we worship, but saying that the scriptures that I study is flawed because they do not come from the Catholic Church is just ridiculous.
    Peace Brothers! "

    Frank Rizzo wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:11 PM:

    " As far as "the Catholic Church being the only authority on the Scriptures" give me a break!! Why is it that I can walk into a Catholic Church and not find one copy of the Bible? The Bible that we have today was written in Aramaic Hebrew and Greek, which which were written by both Jews and Greeks. The manuscripts were handed down to us over the years which match EXACTLY to the original writings. No other document can make that same claim. So your saying I have to be a Catholic to be smart enough CONTINUED "

    Frank Rizzo wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:03 PM:

    " This is all right out of the Garden of Eden, the same tricks and schemes exist. Try to get us to doubt the words of God. Of course you don't want the Bible to be truth because that would condemn you, so try to dispel the word so you will be free to live as you wish instead of as though there really is a God who will judge you in the end. Are you really willing to bet eternity on the hope that the Bible IS NOT the inspired word of God? I'm not "

    Excellent wrote on Jul 19, 2008 8:59 AM:

    " xxx, that's the whole point of gay rights, you don't have to support gays, you don't have to like them, you just have to be in support of everyone, no matter their race, religion, ethnicity, gender, OR sexual preference, having equal rights. People pushing for laws banning gay marriage are doing so because their religion tells them it is wrong. What happens if in 20-30 years Muslims become the majority religion here, and they start pushing for laws based on their religious beliefs? It's like religion in school, people want it, but only if it's THEIR religion taught!!! "

    Remember history wrote on Jul 19, 2008 6:16 AM:

    " The Christian Church (Catholic Church), at a council of the bishops, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined which Scriptures were truly inspired. There were other writings at the time, which may have been pious, but could not be certified as absolutely inspired. Thus, the Catholic Church is only authority on the Holy Bible. This was long before those who decided to "protest" and "do their own thing" came into the picture. "

    Look out wrote on Jul 19, 2008 5:55 AM:

    " I can't believe that someone would question the validity of the Holy Scriptures in order to excuse his/her perverted activity. Jesus said it, "There will be those who will call bad good, and good bad." He was looking forward to the end of the World. And prople wonder why we are going through hard times. Wake up! God is sending us a message! "

    MattySmith wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:17 AM:

    " Hello

    I have just joined this noticeboard and thought I would say greetings

    Thanks
    Mike
    ===============
    http://www.chroarditamp.net - My Blog "

    Dont go there. wrote on Jul 18, 2008 5:31 PM:

    " Ahh, you missed it again. Christians are great historians. Theology is the study of it's history. And there is much substantiated and confirmed data as well as artifacts and scientific evidence that backs it up including the explosion that took place at Sodom and Gomorra and too many things to be able to put in here. I've got numerous books on Christian history and the history of the Bible. Just because in your little world Christian history isn't observed don't think that it doesn't exist. "

    xxx wrote on Jul 18, 2008 4:03 PM:

    " I'm not in support of gays, but I do believe in your views on the bible. If God would have wanted a book written for all to follow, do you really think he would have had so many contridictions contained with the same book? You don't need a book to tell you what is morally wrong, just a brain. If a book was to be written by God, don't you think he would have Adam as the first author? "

    Excellent wrote on Jul 18, 2008 12:24 PM:

    " Excellent letter! Very thought out and explained well. People who conform to a strict interpretation of the Bible would do well to research where those gospels, words, and stories originated. They were not written by the hand of God. In essence, the Bible, as it stands today, is what men, long ago and today, want you to believe. Now, before you condemn me as a non-believer, I do indeed believe in the love of God. I just don't put all my faith in the words of a book that was written and assembled by man to serve his needs. "

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