Judgments -vs- Acting On Moral Judgments

By Butch66
Published/Last Modified on Tuesday, July 8, 2008 11:53 AM CDT

Subject: About "The Daily Iberian" finally publishing one story about a local gay couple and the response it received from some Christians.

To survive in this world, it is necessary to make many judgments everyday. That is why God gave us a brain that can reason, draw conclusions and make judgments, including moral judgments. But as Christians, it is how we act on these moral judgments that will be judged by God. If you are a Christian, then any act of moral condemnation is left to God, not to any man/woman on Earth.

The Roman Catholic Church says contraception is a very bad sin against God and morally wrong. I don't see many Christian families in New Iberia with nine or more children, like in the good-old-days before contraception. Christians who are publicly condemning gays today might one day find themselves publicly condemned by stricter, more moral Christians than themselves.

In the USA, a country founded on Christian beliefs, it is not for a man/woman to judge and condemn by actively causing harm or oppression to another law abiding person, like a gay person or a person who uses contraception. In the USA, it becomes especially offensive if that harm or oppression is based only on someone's personal moral religious beliefs.

It is ironic that at a time when so many Americans have died fighting intolerant religious beliefs in Afghanistan and Iraq, that here at home we find people who are so ready to actively condemn "The Daily Iberian" and gays who are not breaking any laws.

Do you not remember how Jesus came to the aid of people being stoned to death in the streets because of moral religious beliefs? So, do you think Jesus would publicly condemn a story about a gay couple, cancel his newspaper subscription in protest and condemn the newspaper?

It is not the judging that is wrong, but how you act on your moral judgments that matters in the end and might be a sin. "How you treat the least amongst you, is how you treat me." So, how did you treat Jesus today in New Iberia? Did you morally judge and condemn him, forcing him into a life of oppression without any public recognition?

Butch66

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Comments

Sigmond wrote on Jul 16, 2008 5:29 PM:

" There is no social pleasure derived from being gay, not with the Christian Taliban and Islamic Taliban doing Satans work. Joannes daughter rebelled against her religious fanatic mother and experimented with acting gay to punish her intolerant mother. Daughter acting gay "came to her senses" when she finally resolved her mother issues. Children of intolerant religious fanatics usually rebel against their parents by doing what their religious parents preach against the most...perfectly normal child psychology. "

Sigmond wrote on Jul 16, 2008 5:26 PM:

" Sexuality comes from the brain. People are born with a brain formed by hormones which determine sexuality before birth.

Women do not become gay because they are raped by a man or have a bad relationship with a man. If they were repressing their true lesbian or bisexual sexuality before the rape or bad relationship, then they simply give in to their true sexuality after. The rape or bad relationship is only the catalyst which removes their self imposed repression. "

Kim wrote on Jul 13, 2008 1:21 PM:

" Joanne continued. Just a little food for thought.Many on this forum that condemn the homosexual community.The ironic part is they probably don't know that some of their loved ones are just that(homosexual)Those aware of the fact that they have loved ones that are gay,probably know because they were raised in a loving tolerent home.Tolerance is not a bad word.WWJD?The irony of this whole story is that some so called christians are treating the gay community just as the apostles & early christians were treated by the Romans&other sects.Better to live life by the Golden Rule. "

Kim wrote on Jul 13, 2008 12:59 PM:

" Joanne, you are not alone. We are all human,and not one of us can live life w/o sinning, that is of course unless one passes innocent at a very young age.I'm just frustrated by this forum,and the belief that the Bible is all or nothing.I stil believe if we strive in life to do good for others,teach tolerance toward those who differ in our beliefs there will be a place for us in heaven.My God is a loving & forgiving God.Our early church did not believe the Bible alone therory. "

Your Choice wrote on Jul 13, 2008 7:47 AM:

" No Kim, I'm not the one that "cast dispersions" here, I commented on your statement of your 'religion' It's what you said. If it's not true, you shouldn't have said it. "

Kim wrote on Jul 12, 2008 4:43 PM:

" cont-The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin.The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: 1/6th of the human race), and that is testimony to the protection of the Holy Spirit.Some Christians claim, "The Bible is all I need," but this notion is not taught in the Bible itself. In fact, the Bible teaches the contrary idea (2 Pet. 1:20–21, 3:15–16). The "Bible alone" theory was not believed by anyone in the early Church. "

Kim wrote on Jul 12, 2008 4:07 PM:

" Continued-The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517.Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the 19th and 20thcenturies. "

Kim wrote on Jul 12, 2008 3:57 PM:

" Your Choice-careful how you cast dispersions at other religions.I'm not certain of which faith you follow,nor do I care.Everyone must take a path and you have chosen yours.I as a Catholic was brought up to respect everyones beliefs..I don't have to follow them but realize that you are entitled to your opinion.That being said,you should know that among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. "

Joanne wrote on Jul 12, 2008 1:55 PM:

" Thank you, Kim. I know what you are saying and understand. Sometimes I feel like the Pope and the totality of the Roman Catholic Faith who make these decisions purposely overlook the Word of God as it is stated and make laws governing today's culture. That, to me, is wrong. Judging in any way is wrong, I am well aware of that. I am a sinner and confess my sins to God daily. Many have pointed out on this forum how wrong I am in my thoughts, "least we judge one and other"- opinions included. Thanks. "

Your Choice wrote on Jul 12, 2008 9:49 AM:

" That's sad Kim, that the Catholic church finds this summation, because the bible doesn't. That means that the Catholic leaders don't follow the bible. They're trying to appease man, and so it seems they've been successful. Give them what they want, to heck with the truth huh. It's your choice in what you follow. Just be careful that this decision doesn't burn in your heart for all of eternity. "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 9:32 AM:

" Joanne-my original post to you disappeared.I just wanted to make you aware that the Roman Catholic church accepts the findings of almost all human sexuality researchers and mental health therapists that a minority of humans have a homosexual orientation. This is not something that they choose; rather they discover it after puberty. In other matters related to homosexuality, the Church agrees with other conservative religious groups. They regard homosexual orientation to be “objectively disordered” and view homosexual practices as very serious “sins gravely contrary to chastity.They teach thatmen and women with homosexual tendencies 'must be accepted with respect. "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:35 AM:

" These 3 examples show how ridiculous & wrong the view points of the church was in the past.We often lose sight of how harmful this gap between reality and church teaching was to the churches' victims at the time.Christianity continues to grow & change its stance concerning society.They evolve because the fact of the matter is, that it is the people who are the church not the building in which they pray.Tolerance is the only way the church will survive.Today,approx.33% of the worlds population is Christian.As with nature...it must evolve or become extinct. "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:19 AM:

" "For centuries, the church's teaching about left handedness was that it was a sign of evil, in accordance with what was written in scripture, despite scientific evidence that it was not. People were excommunicated – not to mention tortured and shunned and exiled because the outward manifestation of their lives were contrary to the official church 'standard' of teaching. (My beloved can tell you stories that will raise the hair on the back of your necks about the abuse she and others suffered in Roman Catholic elementary schools because of their left handedness)." "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:18 AM:

" For centuries, the church's teaching about seizure disorder was that it was demon possession, in accordance with what was written in scripture, despite scientific evidence that it was not. People were excommunicated – not to mention tortured and locked in asylums because the outward manifestation of their lives were contrary to the official church 'standard' of teaching." "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:17 AM:

" "For centuries, the church's teaching about the shape of the world was that it was flat, in accordance with what was written in scripture, despite scientific evidence that it was not. People were excommunicated – not to mention tortured and tried and sent to jail and murdered for disagreeing with the official church 'standard' of teaching." "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:12 AM:

" Concerning beliefs: About 75% of North American identify themselves as Christians. But Christianity is composed of tens of thousands of faith groups worldwide. They generally agree on what the Bible says; they cannot agree on what the Bible means. They also cannot agree on what portions of the Bible teach truths that are valid for one culture and/or one era, and which parts teach universal truths that are valid for all societies for all time. "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:08 AM:

" "The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals." The American Psychological Association's Statement on Homosexuality, 1994-JUL. "

Kim wrote on Jul 11, 2008 12:05 AM:

" Continued to Joanne-Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided'As a Catholic you should also be aware that the church hierarchy speaks with a single voice. Priests, bishops, archbishops and cardinals are in fact prohibited from publicly expressing views contrary to the church's current official viewpoint. They are even prohibited from suggesting that any church policies need to be changed. This assures that it is mainly official church pronouncements, and statements that are in agreement with the church's beliefs, which reach the public. "

One more comment wrote on Jul 10, 2008 7:09 PM:

" Very well said Joanne. One man, one woman. And, thanks Tyler. As I stated before in the other post. Something must have happen in homosexuals lives for them to turn to their same sex for pleasure. Enough said already!! "

what the hay wrote on Jul 10, 2008 4:18 PM:

" You say that science has concluded that at birth, right there out of the womb comes baby Gay? That's insane, people! I bet you do research on those infamous writers, scientists and throw them all together and you got yourself a Gay parade! That's about some stinking to high heavenness that I ever heard. Oh I am judging alright, I am judging that someone who chooses a book of so called factual science done by Gay scientist against the Bible indeed the Word of God, is insane! Let the burning begin! "

to joanne wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:58 PM:

" No I have to disagree, your daughter probably got hurt real bad by a man and decided to test the waters and experiment, that is all that was.Now show me in the bible where it says you have the right to judge. I want to see your name in that verse, or anyone else that have the nerve to judge others. Ya'll are just to funny "

Frank wrote on Jul 10, 2008 1:34 PM:

" To all of you Christian bashers on here. You are stating (what you believe to be) facts but not giving sources for them. You that said "half of the Christians are drug addicts etc... that number is a little high isn't it? half?!!
To the other one that gay people are born that way and that it is scientifically proven? Give us a source of this science because as far as I know the "born that way argument" is still just a theory, not fact. And if it were true, they need to be "born again" John 3:16 "

scientific nonsense wrote on Jul 10, 2008 1:31 PM:

" I believe Aids is a consequence for doing the wrong thing. We know right from wrong. We are adults here. Gay is wrong according to the Bible. Whatever scientific book some gay scientist came up with is to justify the wrong in what is being done. It does not matter if you are from the south, north, east or west, God is all knowing. God created us. Victory comes in Christ knowing His creations own choices over what is a right choice or a wrong choice. Now, stone me! "

L Mc wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:56 PM:

" I personally know Blue & Willis. In all the years of knowing them, I have NEVER seen a PDA! I do not condone their lifestyle but, I love them as Jesus said to love them.The Bible says: do not judge. for you will be judged with the same measure of judgement. Prayer is a POWERFUL tool. How about praying for them, insteading condeming them?? "

A Minogue wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:47 PM:

" Thank God! Finally a voice of reason! Judge not, lest you be judged. Who among us is perfect and without sin? All of us commit some type of sin, whether it be in regards to who we have sex with, gossip with, lie to, steal from, cheat on, etc. I know many devout Catholic women who will gossip from sunrise to sunset, without batting an eye to their sin, while telling anyone who will listen, about the sins of others. I guess that is okay, as long as they are not being homosexual, right? Please! "

Jarred James Breaux wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:13 PM:

" I hate when people say the United States was founded as a Christian nation. While the people who settled in New England came for religious purposes, the people who settled in the south were not religious at all. Furthermore, the majority of the founding fathers were Deist, not Christians. We also have the 1st Amendment and the Treaty of Tripoli that state the United States is not exclusively Christian. Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli reads: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . ." "

Butch wrote on Jul 10, 2008 12:11 PM:

" Everyone has the right to live their lives without public oppression and condemnation from people who think their beliefs are morally superior. After Jesus told the woman being stoned to "go and sin no more," he let her decide how to live her life. Jesus didn't continue to publicly oppress and condemn her. Jesus didn't force his moral beliefs onto her, but he did stop the morally superior mob. Today, some morally superior Christians are using stones of public condemnation and oppression to force their moral beliefs onto gays. Who will stop today's public stoning? "

Tyler wrote on Jul 10, 2008 11:27 AM:

" My cousin is openly gay and the kindest person. I work with a girl who is gay and the sweetest person you would ever want to meet. Talking to both, these are the only facts I have one of them felt that after being raped she could never trust or be with a man again. She then met a lady that showed her a secure love, and they have adopted a son. The person I work with was a tomboy growing up. She is happily gay. Both say it is their right and their choice to be gay. "

Joanne wrote on Jul 10, 2008 10:48 AM:

" To: John of speaking the truth! I am a Catholic who stands on my Roman Catholic beliefs. My point was God's word is clear that one man and one woman shall leave their parents and become joined together as ONE. Not one man and one man, or one woman and one woman. My daughter took the path of gay living and returned to her senses. Gay is a social pleasure! A child/person is born with Autism or Muscular Dystrophy or Jaundice or Moles, etc., but no one is born Gay! It is a lifestyle choice, period! "

cont to all in this article wrote on Jul 10, 2008 9:02 AM:

" So all you so- called Christians, you need to go to church get on your knees and ask the good Lord for forgiveness for your evil thoughts, or for a 100 dollar donation you can ask ole jimmy to do it for you. ha ha ha ha. but by all means keep the comments coming. I have been having some bad days and this perticular article makes me laugh. "

to all on this article wrote on Jul 10, 2008 8:55 AM:

" All I have to say is "JIMMY SWAGGART WHERE ARE YOU" Please lead us and tells us what to do in these times of the "gay people" of the world.The envasion is too much for us to handle!!.You people are so funny, You make my day. You can bet ole jimmy will take that donation,gay or not he's buying his way into heaven and he has an electric bill to pay on highland road. True christians do not condemn people nor do they judge. "

speaking truth wrote on Jul 10, 2008 2:36 AM:

" Joanne Y., give your bigotry a rest up in north LA. Heterosexuals are also advised to use a condom today to protect themselves from STDs, including Aids. Aids is not punishment for homosexuals from God. You are an embarrassment to Christians. That nonsense about something must have seriously happened in a gay person's life for them to become gay. Gay people are born gay, the same way gay animals are born gay. Read a factual book and learn something proven by science. Misreading the Bible is leading you down the evil path of bigotry. "

to all on this article wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:11 PM:

" Do not judge unless you yourself want to be judged. If your not gay, why care about what they are doing it's not your cross to bear. and if you are gay, do what you have to do only you know whats right and wrong. Oh I disagree with the person that said that something horrible happen to someone if they become gay, it is well known that it is a serious harmone imbalance, and yes a choice, you think we should open up rehab. We have it for every thing else "

my sense wrote on Jul 9, 2008 4:50 PM:

" Believe me more than half of those "so-said Christians are our drug-addicts, alcoholics, and sexual offenders too so they need to watch where they are pushing the buck before they judge; also they cheat the government, beat their kids, and literally ruin other peoples lives intentionally, so there ya go, any other "Christians" want to throw stones? Get a life before you try ruining others... "

To Butch wrote on Jul 9, 2008 4:44 PM:

" You said this country was founded on Christian beliefs and I so agree with you that's why it hurts so much to see a homosexual because that goes against Christianity. "

Gods Grace wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:07 PM:

" I have a niece and a nephew that are gay and they are open with it. But I live by God's word and I've told both of them I love them and what God says will happen if they don't turn from there ways. I hate there sin and wish they would turn from there sinful ways. But I would never turn away from them they are family but I will never approve of the lifestyle nor will I have it shoved in my face. They need salvation and it takes a christian to show them the way! "

Frank Continued wrote on Jul 9, 2008 1:37 PM:

" Women and men giving up the natural functions of their bodies to serve themselves rather than the creator. "Men" having babies is not how God created us.
As far as hating them, I don't hate them but I do respectfully disagree with them, as I'm sure they do me. Romans 1:32 lumps those who approve of such measures right in with those who actually are practicing them. We should all be very careful of what we approve of. There is a right and a wrong in this case, there is no gray area. "

Frank wrote on Jul 9, 2008 1:31 PM:

" Thanks Jarred, i will look those up.
As for approving of the homosexual lifestyle. I see it as another slide down the slippery slope away from normalcy. for example I just heard on Paul Harvey the other day a story of a "woman" who had a sex change to a "man." However "she" kept her reproductive organs in tact, therefore "he" had female reproductive capabilities. And now for the rest of the story? "He" wound up getting pregnant and delivering a baby. This is what Paul was talking about in the first chapter of Romans Cont. "

Joanne wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:54 AM:

" Cont'd.. God says if we are WITH HIM then we do not have to fear at all! In this case you have Medical Professionals strongly recommending to ALL gays that they wear a contraceptive device(condom) to protect their lives from a DEADLY disease! Without making judgment, isn't that a WAKE-UP call? God places people, professionals, circumstances, choices and many avenue's for all of us to determine our steps in life. Many are life lessons that are learned through difficult choices. I know that for a fact in my life. I wish you well in yours! "

Joanne wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Any issue that places an open Bible in the hands of an attentive reader is a success in my eyes. Whether they are studying, praying, researching their point- an open Bible is wonderful and glorious! However, why are you comparing two men having sex or two women having sex to God's creation and plan of a woman and a man leaving their parents and becoming ONE? On the birth control method, I have read and heard how crucial it is for gays to use condoms, certainly not to procreate but to protect themselves from life threatening diseases, right? "

One more comment wrote on Jul 9, 2008 11:34 AM:

" Thank you Frank for your wise quote of what JESUS said, He told the woman to "go and sin no more." We all fall short of the glory of GOD! I have said over and over, something must have seriously happen in a gay person's life for them to become gay!! And don't even try and deny it? Speak the truth and the truth shall set you free! "

Jarred James Breaux wrote on Jul 9, 2008 12:22 AM:

" The Bible condemns contracepts far more often than male prostitution (or homosexuality):

Fertility is a blessing, not something to be suppressed (Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11, Gen. 28:3)

Children are a blessing and a reward and couples should be happy to receive them from God (Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14, 1 Chron. 25:5, Psalm 127:3-5)

Spilling his seed outside of the marriage act is sinful and unnatural (Gen. 38:8-10, Lev.18:22-23;20:13)

God wants married couples to be fruitful and raise godly children (Mal. 2:15, Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11)

Sex without openness to procreation is sinful (Rom.1:26-27) "

lmao wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:51 PM:

" One more thing. Butch66 sums it up pretty well. Most people mistakenly confuse homosexual "tolerance" with "approval". Because I don't approve of the "gay lifestyle", I am labeled an intolerant homophobe. Even the term "homophobe" is wrong, because that means a "fear of homosexuals". I'm not afraid OF them but afraid FOR them. We cannot legislate morality, nor can we force our beliefs on others, and that also applies to the gay nation. I may be forced to tolerate your lifestyle in the workplace or school, but I will NEVER approve. "

lmao wrote on Jul 8, 2008 10:40 PM:

" The Bible says that homosexuality is a perverse sin and an abomination. God does not condone it, no matter what anyone says.God loves us and wants us to become like Him; he provided a Way through Christ. Although God loves us and wants us to follow Him, He is also a just God, and will condemn anyone who rejects Him, homosexual or not. People hear"warm fuzzy" and not the truth.You can't profess to be a born again Christian and be gay. It is contradictory to what God's word says to us. Like it or not, it is the truth. "

to master sparks wrote on Jul 8, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Iam laughing at you. I am 100% not gay but I have friends who are. A woman's best friend is a gay man. He has awesome taste in clothes and is great when it comes to decorating a house. I say let dead dogs lay, and let all live like they want. It is our american right to be whom ever we choose, CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG "

Master Sparks wrote on Jul 8, 2008 3:28 PM:

" You dare say they have not broken any laws. How about the law of decent Mankind .Sick is Sick.There's no justification,no substance, nothing any where that goes along with this perverse living arrangement. No matter how you think of ways to hope you'll be accepted, Accept that you're not a heathy individual. Spreading this filth will only bring in the warth of dispair. "

KD wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:50 PM:

" Why is it that we are so quick to judge a gay person? Obviously those are the ones that have never let a gay person enter there lives. I have quite a few gay friends, some for many many many years. Trust them? With my life! I have never met kinder more understanding individuals. I can't say anything negative about any of them. Who am I to judge or try to make someone believe my way is the right way? "

Frank wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:54 PM:

" Butch, exactly which passage of scripture says that contraception is wrong?
For Christians the moral compass should always be the scriptures. On homosexuality the scriptures are clear, it is condemned. However, Jesus as our example loved everyone and ministered to the lost sinners, we should as well. I am not familiar with where the sharing of ones opinion is "actively causing harm or oppression" to anyone.
As for the passage that you alluded to with Jesus protecting the woman from being stoned, He did come to her aid but then He told her to go and sin no more. "

me wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:40 PM:

" Well said. "

Comment wrote on Jul 8, 2008 1:02 PM:

" It is morally wrong to be homosexual. God has given everyone free-choice, but you need to know right from wrong and do what is right. God created Adam and Eve, man and woman, not Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve. We should love one another, but, from a distance! "

Me wrote on Jul 8, 2008 12:49 PM:

" AMEN! "

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Judgments -vs- Acting On Moral Judgments

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